SPEAKER_03 0:00

She quit her job, started a welding business out of a shed, and couldn't even work when it was raining. Eight years later, she's still in business, and she's got some pretty wild stories of what it looks like to get there. Today's guest is Marissa Mitchell. She's owner of Mars Fabrication out of Knoxville, Tennessee. She's actually the first woman I've had on the welding business owners podcast. I've been wanting to have a female on here for a long time, but I specifically wanted somebody who was actually running a fabrication shop. Not just making metal art, but actually quoting jobs, dealing with contractors, building railings, and handling all the headaches that comes with running a welding business. And that's exactly what Marissa does. She started out by studying art in college, but learned how to weld and eventually found herself doing just about everything for somebody else's fabrication business. Until one day she decided, hey, why not do this for myself? She took the leap, she quit her job and started her own company. In this episode, we talk about pricing mistakes that actually cost her money, nightmare contractors who try to avoid paying her, the challenges of being a woman in a male-dominated industry, and something I think a lot of us business owners wrestle with. Is building a bigger business really worth it if you lose the freedom that you started it for? There's a lot of good stuff in this conversation, so let's get into it. Here's my conversation with Marissa Mitchell. All right, Marissa, thank you for sitting down with me.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Yeah, thanks for letting me join.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I came across your stuff on Instagram when I was I've been actively trying to find like a woman who actually owns a welding business and doesn't just do like yard art out of the garage or work for somebody else. And you are one of like very few women who actually own a welding company. And I'm pumped to talk to you today, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Yeah, I'm excited. I love sharing anything about what I do.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

So it's great. Yeah, absolutely. Well, so tell me a little bit about Mars fabrication and what you do.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Um, so I do uh commercial and residential railings, decorative furniture, large sculptures. Um, I do a lot of just basic fabrication work and then really high-end decorative ironwork stuff.

SPEAKER_03 2:18

So awesome.

SPEAKER_00 2:20

Kind of a little bit of everything.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Very cool. So like like let's take this back a like, you know, as far as you want. How did you get into welding and how did that lead into you know what eventually became Mars fabrication?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

So growing up, my dad was a contractor, so I was always like around job sites and going with him and seeing his builds and construction. And so I think that that was something that kind of inspired me unintentionally. Like I got here without a plan to get here, to be honest. Um I I wanted to do art growing up, so like that was what I was really passionate about.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Yeah. So um my sophomore year in college, I had to take a 3D course where we had to design something and then build it. And something about that process, I just like really fell in love with because I was always like a two-dimensional person before that. And the idea of like taking that 2D image and then creating something that you can actually like feel, touch, and like build a relationship with. I just fell in love with that process and saw that there was a sculpture program at the University of Tennessee here where I was going to school. So I just completely switched my major and got started on that track with like no idea what I was doing. Um, and there's where I learned how to weld, do woodworking, mold making, and casting, all kinds of stuff. Um, and it's funny because I was actually, I had a full ride to go to grad school, and so my intention um initially was to go to grad school and then just become like a professor of sculpture. And I got this job right after I graduated, and I was doing concrete countertops.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:15

And I just really fell in love with that too, and so like I turned down going to grad school to stay working at this job, and so at this job I was doing all their fabrication work, so there's like they were doing railing, custom railings, and stuff too, and like all the supports structures for like vanity tops, host stands, and um like bar tops and stuff. So I ended up falling into like more of doing all the fabrication work, and I was meeting like architects, contractors, designers. Um, and eventually, like people started just like asking me to do small projects here and there for them, and I decided I'm like, why don't I just start my own business?

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yeah, so it's like every other person who's ever picked up a welder. Yeah. They're like, oh, you can make a lot of money like in the welding business and do it out of your garage. Like, I'm in, right, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 5:15

Yeah, I'm like, I'm getting paid right now like $15 an hour to work for this person to do all the work, and they're making, you know, so much on top of me. And I'm like, I could be taking on these clients, yeah, doing it all myself and making the profit, you know.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Absolutely. No, that's awesome. So, so um what like how long did you stay at that job doing the countertops and and the vanity stands?

SPEAKER_00 5:40

And um, I was there for three years. Okay. Um, so I kind of started my business while I was working there. Like, probably like the last year, uh, I started like investing in tools and my own welders and a saw. Um, and then I eventually got to a point where I just quit that job. And um it took a while for me to really like get up and going because number one, the investment in tools and equipment and stuff, like I just didn't have the funding for it. Um so I was actually renting this guy had this like shed in in downtown Knoxville, and he was just like storing stuff in it. And I was like, hey, could I maybe like store my stuff, like my equipment in this shed, and then like pull it outside and work on my projects, you know? And he was like, Yeah, sure, whatever. And so like he charged me some money and he had like a 220 outlet, so I was able to like pull my welder out. Yeah, I built a little table that I would wheel in and out, so I was working, like if it rained, I wasn't working. And in the summer, I'm like working in the dead of the heat, yeah, you know. Um, so I did that for probably like a year and a half before I got enough like jobs under me to where I had enough money to move into a space with a garage.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

Um, and then I so you quit. Like, like, like, did you have a constant um client base when you quit, or were you just like, screw this place, I'm out?

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Yeah, I did my mom probably had so many panic attacks during this um adventure of mine. I was like, I was so headstrong about it for whatever reason, which I'm glad now. Looking back on it now, I'm like, damn, that was really ball. I probably wouldn't like make that decision in the mindset that I have now, but sure. Um yeah, I just was like, I'm gonna give it my all. I created a website, got business cards, and just went all over town networking and trying to build up that clientele and did what I could in the meantime, you know, with a small space and the small amount of equipment that I had until I could build it up to what it is now.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

So wow. So how long ago was that?

SPEAKER_00 8:00

Eight years ago. So I've had my base business for a little over eight years.

SPEAKER_03 8:04

Okay, very cool. So where does a lot of your work come from?

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Um, most of my work, I have a lot of repeat clients, so I deal with a lot of interior designers and architects um and contractors, so I have like five or six of those that regularly feed me work. Um, and then every once in a while I'll get some random, you know, clients from a referral or something of someone else that I've done recently. Um, it's funny, I uh two summers ago I did a railing in this um really high-end neighborhood where there's like a bunch of retired old people that live there. And I guess whenever they developed this neighborhood, nobody put railings in the front porch and walkway. And all these people are retired now, they're getting older, so they need railings to get in their house.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

It's like a captivated audience.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Literally, like, so I did one, and then the next week I'm getting a phone call for another one and and and another one, and like I've done like 20 railings in that neighborhood now, and like I just know randomly, at least two or three times a year, I'm gonna get a call to do railings in that neighborhood.

SPEAKER_03 9:18

So your your interior designers, did you like, did you seek out that clientele? Like, or how did you like did did you actively go at like market towards those people? Or were they just like one person after the other, referrals, or like how did that all uh how did that all come about?

SPEAKER_00 9:40

A little bit of both, really. Like it kind of first started because I I met several of them working for that company that I was working for. Um, so I'd had those contacts and let them know I was starting my business. So they were kind of like giving me referrals and giving me work. Um, but there's a lot of different like networking events that happen around here in Knoxville for contractors and architects and designers and stuff where they host like certain events where you can come and like network.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

Um so I definitely spent a lot of time and still do like going to those and just pushing my name out there as much as I can. Um, and I created like a little brochure that I'm, you know, Google searched like a bunch of different local businesses and stuff and sent those out.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Freaking love brochures, like so. That's one of the things I I I it's not like a trick or to the trade, but like everybody gives out business cards. But if you give out a business card and a brochure, exactly like you like literally like they don't have to ask you what you do. It's right, you it shows like you you just show them right there. That and so um I have these metal business cards.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

So you give them a metal business card and you give them a brochure of like some of your best high-end work, there's no question as to whether like you're qualified or not. It's just a matter of if they can afford you at that point. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

Yeah, yeah, that's where it lies, is if they can afford you. Especially nowadays, like uh, you know, steel prices and stuff are insane.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

So it's ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

And all the consumables and gas and everything, it's like, uh, sorry everybody, like my prices have to go up because absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

Everybody gets it. Yeah, so but like, you know, back like you know, eight years ago, what do you think was like your biggest like turning point from going to like is there something that you could point to where like this was the time where you know this was the job or this was the opportunity that really like I took this serious and the the switch flipped and you like really started running with the business?

SPEAKER_00 11:56

Yeah, I mean, I think it was like when I was working for that other company, I got put into a position to where I was like handling everything, you know, I was dealing with the clients, I was ordering materials, estimating job, like I was basically running a company. And it got to a point where I would be like, well, I need like more compensation or this and that. And I think that that was like the turning point where I wasn't like feeling like I was appreciated or you know, like getting as much as I my worth and my value in the company was. And I was like, Well, I mean, shit, if I'm already doing all this, I can just do it for myself. And um, I think that motivation, and I'm just kind of like slightly a competitive person too. So I'm like, you know, like, all right, I'm gonna show these people I can do this on my own, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

So I'm gonna do it better and I'm gonna take your clients.

unknown 12:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

Yeah, which I don't typically like to be like, I don't I don't go around trying to steal other people's clients and stuff. I think that that was just a situation where it was like I was clearly, you know, being a female and then being as young as I was, I think it was like I was just kind of getting taken advantage of.

SPEAKER_03 13:11

Yeah, yeah. So how often do you answer the phone and uh they asked to speak to the owner?

SPEAKER_00 13:19

Um most people, it which is surprising. I mean, that has maybe happened to me like once or twice a week.

SPEAKER_03 13:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Yeah, because most people just uh because of the referrals and stuff that I get, most of the people that are calling me are already prepared. I think that they're speaking to a female.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Okay. So my wife wanted me to ask you that question because when she would answer our phone, um, like she knows what she's talking about, but a lot of times people would just be like, Can I speak to whoever's in charge? And she's like, Um, no, actually, you can't.

unknown 13:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

Well, see, I've had issues though, like when a contractor will hire me and I'll show up on the job site and the project manager's there, or whatever, and I'm like, hey, I'm here for, you know, whatever, Mars fabrication to do this job, or look at the and they're like, You're not, you're not a welder. Like, there's no like I've had that happen to me so many times. I'm like, well, I am, so could you please take me to the place where I need to be going right now?

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Like what uh so what's been like what have been your three biggest challenges with growing your business from like working out of that shed to where you're at now?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Yeah, I think, you know, just focusing, like my biggest challenge in the beginning was focusing on, you know, spending as much money as I could on getting investing in tools and equipment. Um, and then also like building up that clientele. Um, you know, for the first God, I would say even like five years, there was a lot of this feeling of needing to kind of prove myself. Um, and like just a slight intimidation that I had inside me. Like I would always obviously like hide it as best as I could and to people and contractors and stuff, but you know, it is intimidating when you're showing up on a job site and then somebody's already questioning you and you're just a small female, and you know, you I I think that was like one of my bigger challenges is just like overcoming feeling the need to have to prove myself, you know. Um, I think I worked really hard to do that for a long time, and then now I'm at a point where I'm like, I don't need I don't need to do that anymore, you know. Like clearly my portfolio, all my work, my clients kind of validate who I am and where I'm at.

SPEAKER_03 15:44

Yeah, absolutely. No, your your stuff is is impressive. It looks really it's it's very polished and it looks very nice.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Um so who wait, who do you think has taught you the most in your career as far as like your welding and or the business side of things?

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Oh gosh. Um I think that really most of the stuff that I've learned has been through trial and error making. Like um, I mean, I spent, you know, the first couple years making and still do make mistakes to this day, but uh, you know, a lot of mistakes back then and just really like struggling with not freaking out and just like handling the situation. Um, so a lot of it was really on me to figure that stuff up. I I think the business side of things, you know, which is kind of crazy, actually like going to school for sculpture, they really taught me like they taught me how to build a website. They taught us all about networking and like meeting people and stuff. And so I would definitely say that that really helped me feel comfortable and confident when I was actually trying to start the business.

SPEAKER_03 17:06

Yeah, I feel like everybody has a certain amount of fake it till you make it. And um, I mean, like like I'd imagine it's a lot harder when you're in a woman, or when you're a woman in a male-dominated industry, you just gotta you just gotta fake it a lot more until you make it.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

Absolutely. There was you know, a lot of tears shed at night alone where nobody could see me, of course. Um but uh yeah, I mean, you just have to not let things get you to a point to where you give up and you just keep going and push through. And, you know, um I learned to not be so hard on myself when mistakes do happen because it's just we're all human and it happens, you know, especially doing custom work. Like no job is ever the same, so everything's always different. So, you know, even the job I'm gonna do next week isn't gonna be anything like stuff that I've done previously. So there's gonna be like a learning curve and troubleshooting that needs to happen, and it's not always gonna be perfect at first, but as long as I get there, then that's good.

SPEAKER_03 18:10

Yeah, especially if you don't have a uh like if you don't have a mentor or you don't have like an like a like a system of people around you to like learn from. Um like how do you do this? How do you like how do you do that? Like you can figure it out, but it's a sometimes it's a lot easier just to like ask somebody how they would do it. And um yeah, I can imagine that being pretty hard.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, that's actually one of the biggest reasons why I teach welding classes now. So I on the weekends I do um make welding and tick welding and stick welding classes and like other different like basic fabrication classes. Um, because it's something that I feel like I wish I could have had and would have been able to benefit from to like expedite my learning curve.

SPEAKER_01 18:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Um, and so that's why I like really want to push hard to teach other people and give them direct feedback, like person to person, because yeah, there's nothing better than that kind of you know, learning is with somebody right in front of you able to show you, hey, you're doing this slightly this way and maybe adjust that, you know?

SPEAKER_03 19:17

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

I mean, YouTube's great, but it's like you can only know what you're doing so much versus somebody being able to like watch you and show you.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

Yeah, there's no exper there's no uh there's no um there's no uh what's the word I'm looking for? Replacement. There's no replacement for like actually having the hands-on experience of like actually dipping your tungsten and actually like placing that that that that Tig wire directly at the puddle where it needs to be. Like you like you can you can show it all you want, but if unless you have like the actual heat like on on your hands, burning your pinky right trying to weld it, like it's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Yeah, and I think a lot of it too, uh like like with what you're saying too, is just like time practicing, consistency, like getting in there and spending time physically doing it. Like, yeah, because like you get to a point where it's like, yeah, like like when I teach my students and stuff, it's like I can teach them so much, but then at that point it's on them to take the time to practice and get better and improve.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

Yeah. It's funny because um, so my my son went to he went to school for welding, and he would come home and bring home all these like uh these coupons, and he's all proud of his TIG welds and this and that. Yeah. And then he he graduated and he he gets a job in a fab shop. He's like, yo, this is way harder than I thought it was gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

It's it's pretty in intense, like going, like I taught um welding at Pelissi State Community College here. Um, so it's kind of like a similar situation, like a teacat. And yeah, I'm like, it's one thing when you're welding, you know, like the coupons and stuff, and it's like the flat or whatever, and then I mean, and they teach you to do a little bit of overhead and this and that, but it's like once you actually get into a situation where you're having to build things and stuff, it's just again, it's just so much more challenging because there's so many more variables involved with that process.

SPEAKER_03 21:20

Yeah. So with your your your install, uh so is Mars Fabi is Marsh Fabrication is just you, or do you have any employees, or do you have any subs who help you out?

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Uh I have people that I know that help me out with like installs and stuff sometimes. Um, but all of the fabrication work and stuff I do myself.

SPEAKER_03 21:40

Nice, very cool. What like what would you say has been the hardest thing for you to learn on the business side of things?

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Uh properly pricing my workout. Okay. Also you know, like I mean, there's several things I could talk about. Um Charging the right amount of a deposit, you know, is one thing that I had to learn really quickly. Um, also, like with timelines, like really figuring out because a lot of like when I'm doing like new construction builds and stuff, people tend to have tight deadlines and they come to you at the last minute and they're like, All right, we need this thing yesterday, but I know we're gonna hire you right now. And um, so time management and like placing certain jobs in order and to get things done in a timely manner is kind of important. Um, but I think the biggest struggle really is like pricing because you know you want to charge what you're worth, but then you get in situations with people where they have a specific budget or whatever, and then you know, like especially when I was first starting out, I was just so hungry for the work. I would take on jobs with a really low budget just to get the job, and then I would end up spending you know my own money to get the project done, and it's like paid them to give exactly.

SPEAKER_03 23:02

I we've we've all been there for a couple of a couple times.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Uh so I would say that's probably the biggest challenge, really, is just pricing your work correctly.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

So, what have you done different to price your work better?

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Um, well, thankfully I've had some experience with certain projects that I've done, so I can kind of tell what the scope of work is. You know, like when I was first starting out, a lot of the things were new to me, and it would be something like totally different than I'd never done before. So I, you know, oh, that's gonna take me three days, you know, in the shop to build. And realistically, two weeks later, I'm still there trying to get it done. Um, so I I think having a better understanding of like what the scope of work's gonna be and my timeline and not under selling my timeline to myself more specifically than anyone else, um, has helped me out. But um each job I kind of also have to price out all the materials, consumables, like depending on the scale, like delivery installation, what that's gonna you know entail. So there's you know, hardware, like the finish, if they want like a powder coat versus a patina or spray finish, like it's just like all those things factored in, so you really have to like spend a lot of time like dissecting it all and breaking it down.

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Yeah. So what has been what has been one financial lesson that you learned the hard way with running your business?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Um I'm sure there's a million. Um, I can think of one specific job, and this is the job that I took a turning point on my um percentage of deposit.

SPEAKER_03 24:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

Um, so I used to charge just a 50% deposit, uh, which I think is typical in most situations for like contractors and other things. But since I'm a small business for me, like, and at first it was fine, but in this specific situation, um I was doing this, it was probably like my third year into my business, and it was the biggest project that I'd had at the time yet. So it was like 60 feet of railing going down like a guardrail going down a stairway. And uh, so it was probably like a $12,000 job, which honestly I should have probably charged more than that. But uh, so I didn't charge enough to begin with, but again, it was one of those situations where I was just trying to get the work. Yeah. Um, and the project manager on this uh job, he just did not like me. I don't think he liked that I was a female doing this stuff. Like he he like really had it out for me in a way that was like kind of insane. Like I would have to work um after hours because all the other people were in there doing stuff during the day. And you know, I would have my stuff and I'd like my flap wheels or whatever, and I'd like throw them in the trash can or whatever, and I'd come back the next day and he would take all of my stuff out of the trash and like spread it out all over the job site to make it look like I was like trashing the place. Like there's more insane stuff that he did, but I'm not gonna dive too deep into it. It was just like really crazy, and then it got to the end, and they were trying to not give me the rest of my 50%, which was like $6,500. Yeah. And luckily, my stepdad's a lawyer, so I was I like had like I had him send them a letter and was like, look, you can't not pay for her work.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Like what were they trying to like say the excuse was?

SPEAKER_00 26:51

They were trying to say that like um part of the so part of the stairs, if you're familiar with codes, um, each stair tread can't be more than like a quarter of an inch in variation in height. And theirs were like like the one stair would be like six and a quarter, and then it would be like seven and a half, and then it would be like like their stairs were like so out of way. It was a really old building, but the code for the railing, um, you can't have more than a six-inch sphere fit underneath the the bottom rail. So, I mean, there was no way I could make it to code unless I made each like the bottom rail like match the stair tread, which would look ridiculous. So, anyways, they were trying to say because of that that it was not to code, even though they still passed their code, they they passed their building inspection.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Oh so it wasn't like I was gonna say, like, yeah, it's one thing if if if if the the code guy's busting their balls about it. No, like it's it, you know, what was it a new construction or is it like uh you you said it was an old building, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:58

It was an old building that they were renovating, adding new construction, adding new construction, turning it into like this office space. Um, so I mean Yeah, we were working with unlevel, you know how that goes, like unlevel flooring, unlevel stairs, and you know. Um, so again, yeah, like they passed their inspection, but so like there was no reason for them to not pay me. But so after that, I was like, okay, never again am I doing 50% deposit. It's it's gonna have to be 75%.

SPEAKER_03 28:28

Wow, okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:30

Interesting. What um yeah, that must have felt pretty good firing him then.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Oh, it was, yeah. I I look back still to the on that job and I'm like, what a nightmare. I'm so glad that that that is, yeah. I have never had like a situation like that again since then though, thankfully.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

It's funny. Uh one time we were doing um, we we were doing we had 37 balconies to uh to replace at a a place called the Union League. It's like a like a PGA toy like country club, whatever, yada yada yada. And they like so this this company, they were like a really uh well-known like higher-end company. And they had this project manager. And I I'm surprised they even let this project manager on the site, let alone like put him in charge of speaking with the people who are like paying the bill. Like this guy was just uh he was I'm sure he was qualified as a uh as a you know, his his trait as a you know, his quality of work might have been good, but his manners, he was just uh just a terrible person. He just had it out for me too. Yeah, and like and there was a couple things that I I said ahead of time. I'm like, we that's not gonna work. Like we need to change that. And he just insisted that, like, well, just just try. I'm like, bro, literally, the measurements do not measure, they don't calculate out, like that's not gonna work. Well, just try to put it up there anyway. I'm like, you know what, I'm gonna charge you an extra day for me to come down here with my little crane and put it up there to show you it doesn't work, then you gotta go back to the architect. And like it got to the point where like I'm I'm very even cured. And right, we we we had some words, yeah. We had some words like twice. And I told I I went to I went to the owner of his company. I'm like, I will never do business with you, with, with I'm like, I I want to I want to work with you guys again, but if there's ever a job that he's gonna be the project manager on, you can just count me out for for a bid. Like I'll I'll bit I'll bid everything you that that that that comes this way, but if he's ever the the the PM, I just you know you can go find somebody else. Yeah, that was the exact one. Never had to deal with them again, and it's been so great, and I've never had a problem since.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

It's crazy how you can have like one bad egg like that that just like ruins it for everyone and everything. It's like, yeah, because like I if if that guy wouldn't have been a part of that project, I wouldn't have had any issues, everything would have been a fine.

SPEAKER_02 31:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:23

And uh and I told them the exact same things that you said. I was like, I'm never doing business with you all again with him. Like he's clearly got some issues and should not be in charge.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Um, so what um looking back now, what would you like what is one thing you wish you knew before you started as far as like starting a business?

SPEAKER_00 31:53

Um what was one thing I wish I knew? That's a good question. I mean, I knew it was gonna be stressful, I guess, but I didn't know how stressful it was gonna be like on me mentally. Um and I think I don't know, I say I would want to know that, but I don't think I would because then I think it would keep me from actually doing it. Um so maybe like just going back to like pricing things better, you know, that would be something that I wish I would have, you know, had a better idea or concept of um before like getting as far into it as I did before I figured it out. Like how to properly price things.

SPEAKER_03 32:41

Yeah, I I think that's something that we that we all like, you know, we all learn how to weld, and then it's it it it's it's literally it's exactly your story. It's I'm like screw this. This guy's making all this money, I can do this myself, and we go start a business, but we don't know anything about running a business. Yeah, and it's like you know, I I remember some of the the like the the first things that I priced out, I had no idea. And and like, and to be quite honest with a a quote is just a like uh uh like your best guess.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

You know, looking back now, I I was tell I what was I think about today? There was something. Oh, I made this like alligator, this bar that like so this guy was a big game hunter, and he um he he shot an alligator in Zambia or something, and he wanted a bar built around it. And um he wanted all like he wanted it all metal, but he wanted all the pipes to look like they were tree branches. And um so we just that's what we did. We just took like two 120 volt welders and we turned them all the way down and we ran some cold welds on it. And like somebody asked me for the picture today and I sent it over to them, and I was thinking back, I'm like, I I should have charged like triple what I actually would I actually charged this guy. He got a heck of a deal, and like I'm pretty sure I threw my back out for like three weeks carrying this thing in with like six other guys. I'm like, man, like I you know, I should have I should have known better back then, but you know, it's one thing that we we we just don't know, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Yeah, like especially with new projects like that, where you're and then when you're doing something that's like more creative and detailed like that, it's yeah, it's hard to know how long that's gonna take you and how much work is actually involved.

SPEAKER_01 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Um, but you saying that actually made me just think you throwing your back out. That is probably one of the things that I would have maybe be, you know, prefaced myself with is like because when I started my business, you know, I was like 23 years old. So obviously back then, you know, holding angle grinder all day and welding and doing this and that was like no problem. And now I'm 33. And uh yeah, it's it's tough. Like I I know like I'm gonna struggle with arthritis and carpal tunnel, and I can already feel that stuff coming on. And you know, I wake up in the morning and like all my shoulders and elbows and everything starts cracking and popping, and it's like I'm too young for this. So uh yeah, that might be something that I, you know, people would tell me, you know, my 20s, like, oh, one day you're gonna be feeling that. Uh you know, and maybe I should have, and I didn't believe them, I guess is the thing. So I wish I would have like really believed the people when they were saying that to me.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

Oh my gosh. It's funny. So so when I first I started in a fab shop when I was 15, and there's this guy, his name was Mike. And looking back now, he was probably only 40, 45. This dude had a but he was he had a hard life. And it looked like he had a hard life. And he used to brag that he was like the human crane, like lifting things up that are just like way too heavy for him. And so like being like 50, like 16 years old, I'm like, I aspired to do that. And that you know how many times I freaking hurt myself? Like, that was so dumb. And but like I got stronger because of it, but now I look back, I'm like, that was so dumb. And now I've got a son who's 18. And like, so so so so so I I just turned 40, and um he like I get up in the morning, and boy, I gotta stretch. I gotta stretch before before I'm uh, you know, like, or I'm gonna pull something. Exactly. You know, and I I I think about it, I'm like, man, I'm too young for this already. But then I tell stuff to my son, and it just he's just like me, just goes one in what in one ear and out the other. I'm like, but just just listen to me a little bit, okay? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Yeah, I know. I mean, I was the same exact way, and now I mean I had to start going to the gym like three years ago because I'm like, I gotta like start building muscle and like trying to maintain this, or I'm gonna I don't know. Like, I mean, obviously our job's very physical and stuff, but uh I don't know. It was just it really started to kick in when I hit 30. I was like, I'm not 20 anymore.

SPEAKER_03 37:36

Yeah, yeah. It's funny. I so I I've listened to a few podcasts about like the the secret to longevity, um like in life in general, is and the like the number one thing is just use your body, like lift heavy things, and keep your body in motion and uh you like push it, you know what I mean? Right, like like lift things, stay active. And I'm like I am, but it hurts in the morning so bad.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

I know exactly I'm right there with you, yeah. And I know it's only gonna get get worse, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:12

So it in your shop, um you know, I I'm sure you built a lot of tools over the last couple years. What is your favorite tool that you uh in in your shop?

SPEAKER_00 38:24

Uh one that I've built specifically.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Oh no, like like I mean, like what is your favorite tool in your shop?

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Oh yeah, what's my favorite tool? Um, you know, I really love the plasma cutter. Um I I think it's just like just so fun to use. Um so I would say that that's probably my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Like I I enjoy that one the most. Um, also anything with an oxyacetylene torch, you know, because that's always fun. Um and I would be nowhere without my welder, you know, obviously. Um but yeah, I would say yeah, like plasma cutting is probably like my most like favorite thing to do just because it's like fun for me. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

What kind of plasma cutter you got?

SPEAKER_00 39:14

Uh I well right now I have a guest folder.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Um but at our shop, so I work in a shared shop. I have a home studio here, but then I have a shared shop space um in downtown Knoxville. So they have like their own equipment there. Um, but they have an art captain there that I use.

SPEAKER_03 39:34

Gotcha. How do you like I I've heard I've heard a lot of stuff about this art captain. It's kind of like new on the scene.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Yeah, um, I really like it.

SPEAKER_03 39:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah. Yeah. It does the job. I've had no issues with it.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

So nice. I mean, I would obviously love to have a hypotherm, but I can't say I'm ever gonna give up my hypertherm to try an art captain, but uh yeah, I I wouldn't either.

SPEAKER_00 40:01

If I have one, I wouldn't either. One day.

SPEAKER_03 40:05

Yeah. Um so what do you think? What would you say is the worst piece of business advice that you've gotten?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

The worst piece of business advice. Um oh gosh, I don't know. That's a hard question. Um I mean, I I think a lot of it was just like people initially in the beginning just telling me not to do it at all.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

Really?

SPEAKER_00 40:39

Yeah, like um a lot of people really didn't think I was going to be able to pull it off, I guess. Um so I would say that's the worst one because I did. Um but uh I I don't really know. Like I I guess I don't really talk a whole lot of like business with many people, like most of the time I'm just kind of figured it out on my own, really.

SPEAKER_03 41:09

So interesting. Okay. Yeah. Um, so as far as like advertising and getting jobs in, um, you said you go to a lot of like uh contractor meetups and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 41:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

Um, what other advertising do you do that you found that works out well?

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Um I put up flyers in those brochures. Like I'll go and drop them off to different businesses or mail them out. Um, that's really been great for me. I I've only done like a handful of like Instagram advertisements and stuff. And you know, I've got a decent following online, but most of my business is really just word of mouth and um from literally directly networking networking with people. I mean, I I've gotten several jobs, honestly, from like being at a bar, just sitting at the bar by myself, and then like talking to people, and then I've met like several contractors and stuff that way.

SPEAKER_02 42:07

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Um so net uh like Knoxville's so small, you know, it's like kind of a really small city. So I think that's why it's a little bit easier for me to handle advertising in that way, because um, a lot of it's just like being present and being around, and then like surely enough you're gonna meet or talk to someone that knows someone or something, like um it's it worked out pretty great for me in that way. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 42:38

Awesome. So with all the ups and downs of like purchase in any business, um have you ever considered hanging it up and like going back and getting a job?

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Um, so during COVID, I actually did. Um and I kind of had to. I was like forced to, like, I just wasn't getting the business. Um, and so there was a moment where I'm like, okay, well, I have bills to pay, so I need to go get a job. Um, and I was still like I was working with an architect, like doing drawings, CAD drawings and stuff for him. Uh, and then I also do glass blowing. Oh, wow. So I went and worked for a company doing that too. So I was still like utilizing doing my school skills, but I was working for people. And I mean, you know, when you like work for yourself and you go back to doing that, it's just like this, you know, jab in your pride and stuff, you know. Um but since then, like I've been able to like come out from that and like build my work back up, and like now the economy is a little bit better um than it was then. A little bit, I guess. Um, and you know, I guess sometimes I think I don't think about hanging up. Now, but I I'm considering what an alternative or what the future looks like with my business, just because, like, we were just talking about like wear on my body and it being so physical and challenging. Like, I know it's gonna get to a certain point where it's like, how much longer am I going to be able to do this? So that has made me kind of consider thinking about alternative options, but I don't really have any solid plan or anything right now for that.

SPEAKER_03 44:36

So um I think we've we've all done that. It's funny because I I'm kind of at a point where where I I I love my business, but I'm like, what? Do I really want to be doing this the rest of my life? Do I really want to like run JMW fabrication? Like I I've I actually intentionally scaled back um like two years ago, and it's been absolutely amazing. Like like just my life, family, I make more money now. Um yeah, it's been it's been a like I I I subcontract out a lot of my stuff.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_03 45:14

Um yeah, it's uh like I definitely recommend it. Um at least for me.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Yeah, I think it's gonna get to a point where I need to probably like consider something like along that route.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

Um, so if you were to do it all over again, what is one thing that you would change about how you built Mars fabrication to where it is today?

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Um I think one thing I would change is the jobs that I was taking in. Like again, back then I took on any project I could get my hands on, you know, like fixing a go-kart or like little odds and end things here and there. And I think if I could have been a little bit more specific about the clientele and work that I wanted for the business, which is like more high-end custom stuff like I do now. And I think I could have started off doing that and been a little bit more picky. Um, that's probably one thing I would do.

SPEAKER_03 46:26

Okay. So, so I actually kind of want to go back a uh a little bit because you said you're not sure what it looks like for the future of Mars Fabricate. Have you looked, have you considered growing it to something larger than just you?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

You know, uh, I have thought that a couple times, but I don't know. I just feel like I I know several other people that are like in the same field or similar fields that have done that. And I feel like the stress level of like managing a bunch of people and managing all the work.

SPEAKER_02 47:04

Um payroll.

SPEAKER_00 47:06

Payroll and stuff. Like, I don't think you're actually like at the end of the day, are you even making that much more money? You know, I don't know. Like, and I don't know if the stress and headache of all that is like worth, you know, like I like that I can like have freedom, not having someone relying on me to give them tasks or doing certain things, you know. I could like finish these projects, like hammer them out this week and be like, okay, I'm gonna go on vacation next week or whatever, you know, or go camping this weekend. Um, so like that's one reason why I really enjoy running my business is because I have that freedom. Um, so I think scaling it up would potentially, you know, take that away from me, I think. And that's one thing that kind of intimidates me about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

It it absolutely does. It's funny because like so many people will quit a 40-hour job that you know pays their bills uh in order to chase the dream of working for themselves to work 80 hours, right? And you know, uh like coming from somebody who's had a shop of five, six people, like, yeah, even when you're on vacation, like you're getting emails, you're getting texts, like, what do you want me to do with this? How do I do this? Like, right, this shipment didn't come, and I'm just like, uh, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_00 48:31

Yes, yeah, I exactly, and you know, I think also, like, you know, my dad was a contractor growing up again, so it was like I saw his life. He was never around, he was always working, still to this day, he's like that. I mean, he just like go, go, go all the time. Um, and not to say that I'm not like busy all the time, too, but I'm as busy as I want to be, you know, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_03 48:56

So it it it it sounds like it fits your lifestyle a little bit better working for yourself that way. Exactly. Because I've learned that you know, now that I've scaled back to AMW fabrication a little bit, I really value the time freedom that I have. Yeah, like like I've got three kids and two of them are young, and I'm like, dang, it's kind of nice to like not have to worry, you know, worry about keeping people busy when I'm you know, I I have to go somewhere and to or I have to take a day off and go do this, you know what I mean? I get to take a day off and go do that with my kids instead, you know exactly.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

Yeah, that's so nice.

SPEAKER_03 49:42

Yeah. Um, well, as we wrap this up, uh I have one last question. Um uh what advice would you give somebody doing welding on this side who's trying to turn their side gig into a full-time business?

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Uh, I would say make as many connections as possible. Go out, put your name out there. Um, like and don't give up. Like it's going to be really rough. It's going to be hard. Um, but you have to just like keep pushing through it and uh don't get discouraged along the way. I mean, again, like there's gonna be so many challenges and stuff that you face, like, even me to this day, like I have really challenging projects that like drive me insane, but um I think the satisfaction of seeing your business thriving and seeing your work when it's finished, once you complete a project, like it's so rewarding and it's something that you know obviously you earn. Um, but yeah, I just I just think pushing, going, never giving up, so you get to that point, and it it'll be definitely worth it.

SPEAKER_03 50:54

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Just push through it.

SPEAKER_00 50:58

Yeah.

unknown 50:58

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 51:00

Well, Marissa, I appreciate the time. And um, yeah, I hope to uh catch up with you again sometime soon.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

Yeah, thank you so much. It was great talking to you.

SPEAKER_03 51:08

Yeah, you too. I'll talk to you soon.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:11

Thanks.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

Yeah, thanks.